Grammar Info

N3 Lesson 6: 14/24

は言(い)うまでもない ①It goes without saying (that), (It is) needless to say, I don't need to remind you

Structure

Phrase + は + 言(い)うまでもない

Verb + ということ(1)は + 言(い)うまでもない

［い］Adjective + ということ(1)は + 言(い)うまでもない

［な］Adjective + ということ(2)は + 言(い)うまでもない

Noun + は + 言(い)うまでもない

(1) こと、の、というの
(2) というの、なこと、なの、

Details

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About は言うまでもない ①

は言(い)うまでもない is a structure that combines the adverbial particle は, the う - Verb 言(い)う, two (2) additional adverbial particles まで and も, and the い-Adjective ない. This is regularly translated as 'it goes without saying that (A)', or 'it is needless to say (A)', where (A) is whatever comes before は.

This expression may be preceded by almost any phrase, but is often emphasized even further by the inclusion of こと (or の), or ということ (or の).

Literally, this expression is a combination of the meanings of its individual parts.

は - Presents the topic.

言(い)う - Presents that topic as something that can be said.

まで - Presents 'being said' as an extent.

も - Emphasizes the extent set by まで.

ない - Expresses that extent as not existing.

Fun Fact

This grammar pattern will often be followed by structures such as が, to add a 'but' nuance.

  • 彼(かれ)の日本語(にほんご)がうまいのは言(い)うまでもないが、日本語(にほんご)が上手(うま)いのは日本(にほん)に30年(ねん)住(す)んでいるからである。
    It goes without saying that his Japanese is very good, but he is good at Japanese because he has been living in Japan for 30 years.
  • 一人(ひとり)で山(やま)を登(のぼ)るのが危(あぶ)ないというのは言(い)うまでもないが、気(き)をつけて行(い)けばそれほど危(あぶ)なくはない。
    It goes without saying that it is dangerous to climb a mountain on your own, but if you go cautiously, it is not that dangerous.

Related

Examples

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    困(こま)っている人(ひと)を助(たす)けるべきと言(い)うのは言(い)うまでもない。

    It goes without saying that one should help people in need.

      困(こま)っている人(ひと)を助(たす)けるべきと言(い)うのは言(い)うまでもない。

      It goes without saying that one should help people in need.

      エネルギーの無駄(むだ)使(づか)いをやめれば、電気代(でんきだい)が下(さ)がることは言(い)うまでもない。

      It goes without saying that if you stop wasting electricity, the electricity bill will go down.

      ともちゃんの大阪(おおさか)での知名度(ちめいど)が高(たか)いことは言(い)うまでもない。

      It goes without saying that Tomo-chan's popularity in Osaka is high.

      「にせあい」がこの世代(せだい)の最良(さいりょう)の漫画(まんが)の一(ひと)つであることは言(い)うまでもないだろう。

      It goes without saying that 'False love' is one of the best manga of this generation.

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        は言うまでもない ① – Grammar Discussion

        Most Recent Replies (16 in total)

        • Pushindawood

          Pushindawood

          it goes without saying (that)
          (it is) needless to say
          I don’t need to remind you

          Structure

          • Verb + (という) + こと / の + は + 言うまでもない
          • い-Adj + (という) + こと / の + は + 言うまでもない
          • な-Adj + という + こと / の + は + 言うまでもない
          • な-Adj + な + こと / の + は + 言うまでもない
          • Noun + という + こと / の + は + 言うまでもない
          • Noun + (なの) + は + 言うまでもない
          • Phrase + (は) + 言うまでもない

          [Used to express something obvious, not surprising. Often used to remind someone or conf...

        • mattbacon

          mattbacon

          I have a question about this example:

          A：「レオンはプロだそうだよ。」
          B：「うん、それ は言いうまでもない ね。」

          それ is a noun here (hence それなのは〜 also being accepted), so why is それというのは〜 not accepted?

        • mrnoone

          mrnoone

          Hey

          To be honest, それというのは言うまでもない is simply not used. It is understandable though.

          I hope it helps,
          Cheers!

        • mattbacon

          mattbacon

          Okay, thanks.

        • pandashoujo

          pandashoujo

          Hello! I noticed a similar example:
          さだおさんは中国語がペラペラだ。英語はいうまでもない。
          英語 is a noun, but entering こと in the answer is marked wrong. Is there another rule not written in the explanation?

        • mrnoone

          mrnoone

          Hey @pandashoujo

          In this case, ことはいうまでもない does not sound natural.
          Actually, I decided to change the structure section, so that only Noun + はいうまでもない construction is provided.
          It is because Noun + ということは言うまでもない rarely feels natural and in most cases, Japanese speakers would correct it to は言うまでもない so it is better to avoid it.

          Sorry for the inconvenience

          An example where it feels natural:
          彼っぽいセリフだということはいうまでもない。
          Needless to say, this line sounds like him.

          彼はかなり人気だ。金持ちということは言うまでもない。
          He is quite popular. Not to mention, he is rich.

        • pandashoujo

          pandashoujo

          I see! Thank you for updating the explanation. I think it will help me.

          I am a little confused about verbs in this structure, though. Sometimes it seems like they should get こと, sometimes not. Are they considered “a phrase” rather than a verb at times?

        • Daru

          Daru

          By adding こと you are nominalizing what’s before it.

          Depending on each sentence, nominalizing what’s before 言うまでもない will make it sound more natural and concise, it’s usually when you have longer sentences rather that one-off words.

          You don’t nominalize/use こと if it would be redundant (for example, a sentence that’s already being nominalized by a か or similar nominalizers) or if it’s a single noun.

          Read over the example sentences and I’m sure it’ll become clear!
          Hope this helps!

        • dom1911

          dom1911

          As I am learning this grammar point I am constantly amazed that there are sometimes up to 17 ways of phrasing this. Granted a lot of them just differ in the level of politeness but I am curious if there are some forms that are predominately used so that I can focus on some. (My native-level partner said I should just choose one and stick to it but I’d prefer one that is actually commonly used)

        • eclipse77x

          eclipse77x

          For the example sentence「 生きるのに酸素が必要なことはいうまでもない。」would it be unnatural to say 「生きるのに酸素が必要だとはいうまでもない。」?

          Would that change the meaning a little to make 「生きるのに酸素が必要」 a quote instead of just stating it as fact?

        • CrisH

          CrisH

        • nekoyama

          nekoyama

          言わずもがな is a real expression that either means something does not have to be said (like 言うまでもない), or that something is better left unsaid.

          言う + negation ず + inclusive も + desire がな.

        • CrisH

          CrisH

          Thanks! Hadn’t come across がな before, and this phrase isn’t mentioned at all as part of the grammar point…

        • Liras348

          Liras348

          ...
        • casual

          casual

          This line of reasoning does make sense, with べき attaching to nouns directly.

          But it also can be followed by だ directly, so it doesn’t universally match verb (or な-adjective, or 連体形 for that matter) behavior. There’s more on it here べき (JLPT N3) | Bunpro and here べき - Grammar Discussion - #16 by nekoyama.

          So the practical approach here might be to just individually remember all constructions with べき that exist.

        • sandoru

          sandoru

          Would be ……だというまでもない incorrect here?

        • Fuga

          Fuga

          Hey @sandoru !

          だというまでもない would be incorrect and would sound a bit unnatural!

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