Structure
Verb［たら］(1) + Verb［た］+ で
［い］Adjective［たら］(2) + ［い］Adjective(3) + で
［な］Adjective + なら + ［な］Adjective + で
(1) Verb［ば］
(2) ［い］Adjective［ば］
(3) ［い］Adjective［た］
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Standard
About たら〜で
たら〜で is an expression that appears with repeating words, and may be used either positively or negatively in order to show that 'if (A), then with (A), (B)'. It is often simply translated as 'even if (A), (B)'.
たら〜で may use either the conjunction particle たら or ば when paired with verbs or い-Adjectives, but will use なら when paired with な-Adjectives.
In たら〜で constructions, it is important to remember that the nuance will change depending on the first half of the sentence. Basically, the most common interpretations are as follows.
In the good situation of (A), the problem of (B) will arise.
In the problematic situation of (A), (B) can still be done.
So in either case, it can be seen that (B) will be something that is contradictory to (A).
Caution
In this meaning, なら～で will only ever follow な-Adjectives. If you see なら〜で following another type of word, then it will be the meaning used for showing dissatisfaction, or telling people what to do.
- 好きなら好きで、はっきりと伝えなくちゃ。If you like them, you have to tell them clearly that you like them. (This grammar point's meaning)
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辞めるなら辞めるでいいけど、後からやっぱりやめなければよかったとかって言わないでね。If you want to quit, then go ahead and quit, but don't say later that you wish you hadn't quit after all. (The other なら～で meaning)
Examples
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「結婚したい。」
「結婚したらしたで大変だよ。」
'I want to marry…'
'Even if you get married, it's (still) tough.'
「また子供になりたいな。」
「けど、子供になったらなったで子供なりの苦労があるよ」
'I want to be a child again…'
'But, children have problems of their own even if you become (are) one.'
「金は沢山あったらあったで悩みも増えるものだよ。」
「それはそうだけど、でも、なかったらないで困るでしょ。」
'Even if you have a lot of money, problems will also multiply.'
'That might be right, but even if you don't have any, then it's (still) troublesome.'
「もし失敗したら失敗したで、また最初からやり直そうと思う。」[失敗する]
"Even if I fail, I will do it again from the beginning."
「もし失敗したら失敗したで、また最初からやり直そうと思う。」
'Even if I fail, I will do it again from the beginning.'
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たら〜で – Grammar Discussion
Most Recent Replies (2 in total)
Dinasaur99
I don’t know if I fully understand the Japanese logic to this grammar point.
What is the で doing gramatically?走ったら走ったで
run-if ran-??Any help would be appreciated, thank you.
nekoyama
The で marks a scope or topic for the following comment.
Since で is not often used in this way directly after a verb, maybe it helps to think of it as a shortcut that’s leaving out something before the で, such as ところ or 場合 or ということ. I’m not saying that that’s where this pattern comes from (I have no idea), but I think it’s similar.
Or in English:
Assuming that I run, in a situation where I ran, (…comment on what happens when I run).
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